Crossroads 2018: Ageism or natural (d)evolution Part 2

“To state the facts frankly is not to despair the future nor indict the past.”
~ John F. Kennedy ~

Written and presented by

Tim

Good afternoon,
There has been, just today, a most extraordinary exchange taking place that bears directly on the subject of “Ageism”… this “argument” is taking on a life of its own, since the publication of the original commentary at the grumpyvamp.wordpress.com the lines have, quite literally, been running hot.

In the first instance I am delighted to report that we have secured an exclusive interview with author Marcel Curiel of the blog, “Arcane Ramblings of a Teenage Vampire”. We are very exited at getting a look inside the proverbial book cover. That interview will be published either late this evening or tomorrow.

In meantime, I would like to report, from “inside” the action on a series of exchanges that followed a post made by Lord Stefan Henderson on his timeline on Facebook 

The post took the form of a wide-ranging address in the matter of the “Ageism” debate and contained a great many valid, and supported, points from the point of view of the longer serving members of the modern culture. (Recommended reading)

This is, verbatim, exactly what ensued in one string of response and reply after that post was made;
(Reproduced by permission of Lord Stefan H.)

Sage Hawk

The elders disappear and abandon this community and then wonder why z and y act this way? Hahahahhahhahaha

Stefan Henderson

Stefan Henderson Not all the Elders left or abandoned; those of us that have fought are calling the others out

Christopher Rogue Ostrowski

I have been here since the 1990’s. Back when Father Todd almost destroyed it.

I see it happening again.

Sage Hawk

Well you are all few and far between. So before you criticize z and y look at the part your generation played in making it so more than half of us never had a proper mentor because your generation decided that when Todd fucked it up you’d just leave.

Stefan Henderson

Stefan Henderson I agree and understand, Sage. Believe me, I have spent decades cleaning up that mess. It all starts with both parties understanding the errors made and working together to not only repair them but ensure they don’t happen again.

Christopher Rogue Ostrowski

Christopher Rogue Ostrowski Like I said, the time for Bubble Gum and Popsicles Sticks is gone. We need a permanent fix. We let the Lifestylers take away our Heritage. They corrupted the History and Ancestry.

Sage Hawk

And you left me alone in the thick of it. I have been saying this since we moved to facebook, that our culture was dying and NO ONE backed me up. I had to argue 3 or more people at once by myself for quite a few years now. Luckily Lady CG and Julianna made places to go that were not here and were not friendly to the riff raff… I finally was able to leave the VC on here.

Stefan Henderson

Stefan Henderson ?? You indicate that I’ve known you before now; please explain, in private preferably. My memory is not what it was.

Christopher Rogue Ostrowski

No, I didn’t. I have been “Removed” from several Groups on Facebook because of my stance. VC has been the latest one that Banned me. It isn’t a matter of we “Left” a lot of us have been Banned

Sage Hawk

I see, I did not know that Christopher Rogue Ostrowski. No one said that elders were being mass banned.

Stefan Henderson I apologize… no I’ve seen you around but we have not spoken before now.

Stefan Henderson

Not a problem. Christoper, you mean VCN? If you were banned from that, you’re in good company

Christopher Rogue Ostrowski

Anyone that goes against the “Norm” gets removed. Hence, They are “Burying Us” while we are alive.

Sage Hawk

I was kicked from VNN with no explination and I purposely left the VNC because they posted the most idiotic shit as ‘news’

(Ed. Note – the following statement was mistakenly attributed to Ms. Hawk, it was, in fact, authored by Mr. C. R. Ostrowski, see written/published apology 3/27/18)

Christopher Rogue Ostrowski

-Then you understand the frustration.

My theory is, our way doesn’t make money.. Fangs, Balls, Costumes, Parties, Debauchery, Is more profitable than helping and learning.

We have become the “Parents the make you study to better yourself.”

Sage Hawk

I have been noticing that. I used to respect Michelle but not so much anymore. She and Madame x just post about vampire balls and seminars…. fuck that shit.

Madame X

Madame X Sage, maybe you aren’t looking closely 😉

Merticus Stevens

Christopher Rogue Ostrowski I have not removed you from VCN… afaik I’ve never had any issues with you whatsoever nor did you ever violate any rules etc.

Christopher Rogue Ostrowski

Merticus Stevens – Oh no my Friend. I was removed. When there was the big debate about House Rakoczy. I was removed because I stood my Ground on the House. We were repeatedly attacked. Charles Johnson and Cory Kai Draken can back on that. I was Blocked.

Sage Hawk

Well Madame X unless you have something other than Facebook going on … I saw 2-3 posts by you daily in the Facebook VC, and they were all about vampire parties. So perhaps you should look at your own stuff and how you come off for a second before having an attitude.

Christopher Rogue Ostrowski

Even the Magister “Knighted” me for standing up to people attacking the House.

Sage Hawk

Sage Hawk I have been attacked for defending Asetians. So I know how you feel. Rokoczy is a good house. It seems the community has decided basic things like houses are laughable now. Fucking dumb

Merticus Stevens

Christopher Rogue Ostrowski I just checked and your name doesn’t appear in the blocked list. You are more than welcome to rejoin.

Stefan Henderson

Sage Hawk , take care. Madame X is one of my oldest and most trusted friends and allies; heed her words. This is exactly what I was talking about.

Christopher Rogue Ostrowski

Merticus – It hurt that I was removed. You and I have chatted since you started your study in the 90’s. I remember a Female that worked for for the study also. She moved away. She was my first contact with a person that actually listened

Madame X

Sage my attitude is one of education. My parties involve presenters, discussion groups, networking, philanthropy and community building. And those are the public gatherings. I have also appeared with others in several programs, zines articles etc … I’m sorry but I must have missed your contributions.

Merticus Stevens

Christopher Rogue Ostrowski Nods, my apologies for your removal the other year (likely during the non-link etc. postings from the other year). Alas, I harbor absolutely no ill will towards you or House Rakoczy or many people at all for that matter. I’m by no means a pacifist but I believe in giving a wide berth.

Sage Hawk

Madame X listen this is what I am talking about. This attitude. I do not get it. Quit being defensive and actually think and hear me for a second. I thought this post was for honesty and looking at things that have been going wrong.

That’s great that…See more

Madame X

Sage what is your concept of stepping up?

Tim Bey-Sahjaza

Hey Sage baby… if you’re gonna act like a child…

Blessings dear…

[image of a large lollipop]

Sage Hawk

Sage Hawk Madame X what I just said above. Actually listen to what I am saying instead of automatically taking it as an attack. This is part of the problem if the OVC in general, everything is an attack. No one comes in to a conversation honestly anymore.

Tim Bey-Sahjaza

Mz. Asetian… if YOU come out and ATTACK and DISRESPECT you WILL get it back in spades, it’s simple physics.

Sage Hawk

Tim Bey-Sahjaza wow… this is how you behave??? And you wonder why none of us respect any of you.

Marmoon Bey

Sage Hawk take your narcissism back to your group and stop attacking everyone …

Sage Hawk

Sage Hawk I’m not attacking anyone

Mavenlore Scalzi

I respect Tim Bey-Sahjaza

Sage Hawk

I’m giving legit critisism. This is why I fucking hate the VC …. you legit think everything’s a fucking attack… and then call me the sensitive baby…. good job, you played yourself.

Tim Bey-Sahjaza

After the way I was treated when I visited the Asetian home, BY INVITATION, I have zero respect for the Asetians or anyone that stands with or for them. If you really want to see behaviour I’ll put RVL’s 3000+ page views per month, 120 countries world wide and 1250 plus Twitter followers on your timeline and on the Asetian case… capiche?

Mavenlore Scalzi

[inset popcorn eater gif]

Tim Bey-Sahjaza

Now be a good girl, shut up and go away. BYE

Tim Bey-Sahjaza

Sage Hawk you are a supreme idiot and a supreme poser. You may leave now.

Christopher Rogue Ostrowski

WHOA! SEE? This is the shit we are talking about. Stop it. No more. Healthy Debate is good. It gets out ideas. Insults and Sarcasm do nothing!

Sage Hawk

Christopher Rogue Ostrowski this is what EVERY FUCKING DAY is like in the VC.

I can’t talk resonably without this horse shit.

Christopher Rogue Ostrowski

I know. It has to end. We are are going to get nowhere fast. Everyone to their respective corners and take a breather.

Marmoon Bey

Wait a minute Christopher … she attacked Madame X first because she has no idea what goes on in individual Houses in the VC … yes, this is a young person acting like a petulant child

Derek Lestat

I can’t exactly attend any events in NY or NJ, being that I’m in Chicago, but I can review what I see of them, and what I do not.

I do not see Madame X trying to sell anything. I do not see her hawking fangs to the dance clubs. I do not see her selling…See more

Sage Hawk

Marmoon Bey I didn’t attack Madame x I asked a legit question and gave legit criticism of her adds. Get over it.

Christopher Rogue Ostrowski

Marmoon Bey I have been. I am putting my foot down. Your fault, my fault, nobody’s fault. just stop and relax.

Sage Hawk

Thank you Derek Lestat for explaining more. No one else was mature enough to do that. Either way it would be a good idea to rethink the adds. Because they do look like glorified halloween party adds.

Tim Bey-Sahjaza

Okay, that is the line… first an attack on Madame X, now disrespecting my lady wife. Y’alls right – now enough is enough…!

All innocent bystanders Stand Back please.

Marmoon Bey

I didn’t lay blame on anyone … I didn’t say it was anybody’s fault … I don’t even know you or Sage …

Christopher Rogue Ostrowski

Marmoon- that is a saying my Great Grandmother used when I was a kid. Just please. Evertone calm down

Derek Lestat

I will also point out something else I’m seeing: friends, brothers/sisters, those I don’t yet know, EVERYBODY FUCKING CHILL JUST ONE MOMENT.

Playing devil’s advocate, I’m seeing perpetuation of the problem on both sides here.

How about EVERYBODY walk away from the keyboards for five minutes, then come back refreshed?…


So, let’s take my good friend Derek’s advice, let’s step back and look at exactly what happened shall we?

The first striking comment that Mz. Hawk made was, “The elders disappear and abandon this community and then wonder why z and y act this way?”

I would suggest that, if we were to take a poll of all of the longest serving members of the modern culture we would find that there are quite a number of them, the majority in fact, who have never, or rarely, left the “community” for any length of time. This indeed begs the question as to where Mz. Hawk has actually been and for how long?

 

A little further on and you can see we are treated to; “I have been noticing that. I used to respect Michelle but not so much anymore. She and Madame x just post about vampire balls and seminars…. fuck that shit.”

Excuse me, say what? This is about where the whole discussion/argument/debate starts to go downhill. I would suggest that when a person “steps up”, no matter who they may be, and starts flinging insults at people who have been in the modern Vampire Culture from its very birth then we know we’ve got a problem on our hands.

This is followed up by the statement, “Well Madame X unless you have something other than Facebook going on … I saw 2-3 posts by you daily in the Facebook VC, and they were all about vampire parties. So perhaps you should look at your own stuff and how you come off for a second before having an attitude.”

Obviously Mz. Hawk has absolutely no knowledge whatsoever of House of The Dreaming and The Iron Garden…

 

I will leave you to read the rest for yourself dear reader but suffice to say that further impudent demands and insults were levelled against Madame X, and others. Now, some folks are going to say that I baited Mz. Hawk to one extent or another… I put it to you I merely investigated how far she was willing to take her own “attitude” and behaviour. When questions were put to her she backed away with some over-quoted, often used evasions but gave no answers nor offered any evidence that she had “stepped up” as she was demanding others do.

This, in essence, demonstrates exactly what drew the author of the article on Ageism in the culture to write as they did. It’s exactly what drew commentators to react angrily to that article, it seems that this is may become a new, and MUCH un-needed dividing line in the modern culture. This needs to be seen and treated as a major priority or we may end up with a divided culture, divided by age…!!! Imagine, The Young VC and The VC

Whatever your feeling on this matter there are several facts that are, and must be, held to be self-evident:

  1. There are a great many people who have been in the culture for a long time and who have been working, and giving of their time and lives freely, to create, as best they can, a strong cultural foundation for modern living Vampires.
  2. There are a number of “young” people in today’s culture who do not know exactly what the the long-term members of the culture do, either within their own house or even outside of it in the real world community.
  3. The modern Vampire culture is, in large part, very welcoming, supportive and nurturing of newcomers be they young or not. The major, respectable, well run and long standing Houses and Orders have structured learning, advice and people who will help newcomers without expecting anything in return. Anybody who can’t find an Elder/Mentor isn’t looking very hard.
  4. The people who have given so much of themselves for years to build and serve the Vampire culture should not have to put with abusive behaviour, petulant demands and being sworn by people who have no respect for either the people they are talking to nor, I would suggest, for themselves. That is called harassment. Plain and simple.

It is also common knowledge that the majority of the members at the longer serving end of the spectrum have crossed paths at one time or another, perhaps several times and we will absolutely, always and without a second thought defend those who have put their heart and soul into this culture. Expect nothing less if you want to come in and make a spectacle of yourself.

 

The crux of the problem then, KNOWLEDGE.

People coming along with none, or little, picking someone to take a tilt at when they have no idea what their target does, runs, works at or contributes.

ADVICE: Before you sling off at someone make sure of your facts.

People coming along all full of vim and vigour, piss and pepper, without realising that they are not the first, not “the conscience” and not the “crusader” they think of themselves as being.

ADVICE: Leave the “shoulder chip” and the “badass attitude” at the door, neither will get you very far in the culture and you will find yourself being banned all over because your “honesty” is merely your cherished “perception”.

 

True enough the old saying, if you’re going to cause trouble… “Know thine enemy”.

I suppose last piece of advice that I could possibly give here is, if you are going to come into the culture and start a fight you may want to bring along a hundred or so friends and a really heavy suit of the Master Chief’s armour – you’re going to need it before you get thrown out…!

As my friend Derek said, let’s just think about this for a minute…or five, shall we?

Copyright TB 2018 (except where noted)

NB: Where used, quoted portions of other works are reproduced by permission, or under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, wherein allowance is made for “fair use” for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research.

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The views and opinions presented in this article are the opinions of the author and/or contributors and do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of The Owner/s of RVL, their officers, assigns or agents. RVL and its officers do not personally, individually, or jointly necessarily recommend or condone any of the activities or practices represented.

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( https://realvampirenews.com/real-vampire-life-website-disclaimer/ )

 

An important message from RVL

img. source: ccPixs.com

Presented by

Tim

Good afternoon to all our readers,

Earlier today we received a question about what we do at RVL, the question read something along the lines of;

“Why are you featuring this? Don’t you know that [so-an-so] has done this, this and this?”

I want to address that question for everyone, as we have done for the person who sent us the question.

At the very outset, the conception and action that led to the establishment of RVL, our owner, J. Reason, made the decision that RVL (RVN back then) would be absolutely neutral source of information and news.

In late 2010, when I and Lady M agreed to take on the running of the E-Zine that was impressed upon us very strongly. As we have grown and developed into RVL over the years we have always maintained that position. Now, if I, as Editor-in-Chief and Senior Staff Write something needs to be said then it goes under the banner of the “Crossroads” series – That is my by-line if you like.

With respect to any other material consider us to be like Switzerland. We WILL present such news, information, entertainment and other articles, reports and editorials that we feel will be of interest to a great many in the wider culture. We will NOT simply present material because we like people/friends nor exclude it because we don’t like certain people.

Personal likes/dislikes have NO Place in the running of J. Reason’s Real Vampire Life E-Zine. We operate under J’s rules because J. is the owner of RVL E-Zine.

Thank you.
T.
Editor-in-Chief

Crossroads 2018: Ageism or natural evolution?

“To state the facts frankly is not to despair the future nor indict the past.”
~ John F. Kennedy ~

Researched, Written, Edited and Presented by

Tim

PARENTAL ADVISORY: STRONG LANGUAGE AHEAD… Police those l’il eyes folks

Good evening,
I hope everyone is well, if not entirely happy…

Many of you may have seen, and read, the article “Ageism and the Greater Vampire Community” that was presented at the grumpyvamp.wordpress.com
There were several valid observations made in that article and while it may not accurately, nor entirely, reflect how the majority of the older members of the culture feel, that shouldn’t detract from it becoming a point of discussion, productive discussion even. Allow me to throw something else in here that might be of help in deciding whether to accept one point of view or the other of “Ageism”.

There are those who say that there are two things in life that are inevitable, “death and taxes”… I would suggest that should read “death, taxes and CHANGE”, change, no matter what your point of view, no matter what your politics, religion, sexual orientation, country of residence or philosophical leanings is, and always will be, inevitable.

The choice that faces every single person that has a brain and an ounce of intelligence is how to adapt and accept, or simply evade the change and hope it doesn’t take you down with it. In this particular “discussion” we have one point of view that relies on the role, the history, the struggles and fights, the achievements and successes of a particular generation of the modern Vampire culture to make a point and an opposing point of view that disregards such.

On the “disregard” side, or should we say, in the other “corner” we read the following comment, and I quote;

“Lmao. Fuck off, you stupid old bastard. The geriatric fucks like you that paved roads ten and twenty years ago still want to be worshiped as though you were fucking kings or something. Get over it. My generation will bury your asses, anyway.” (Excuse me but did he just threaten to kill me, or someone else? Or is the author just having a tantrum??? – Ed.)

I fail to see any saving grace whatsoever in that statement. It doesn’t seem to serve any purpose except, perhaps, to demonstrate that this particular “opponent” has nothing sensible or useful to say, doesn’t seem to care whether they embarrass themselves in public and also seems determined to destroy any shred of credibility they may be seeking to establish in this, or any other, culture.

Having said that, is there any validity to the “Youth against Age” point of view?

How many of you remember when you were fifteen, sixteen, seventeen and “running with your crew” in whatever home town you lived in?

How many of you remember the moment you became aware of the Real Vampire Culture and engaged in that for the first time?

How many of you recall the first House/ Order/ Court or Haven that you joined? And the “rules of conduct” that organisation had?

Do you recall what changes you, personally, went through between each of those events? The adjustments in thinking and acting that came with each?

What about when you got your first job, how did that go over?

Img. source: Nitty Griddy

“In the UK there is a strong youth politics movement, consisting primarily of the British Youth Council, the UK Youth Parliament and the Scottish Youth Parliament. In Africa the Program for Young Politicians in Africa (PYPA) all in good company with the Green Youth (Sweden) the Indian Youth Congress (India) the Communist Youth Movement and the Egypt Youth Party.” Young people actively engaging to learn about the role of politics and politicians in preparation for taking their places when the time comes.

In the Catholic Church, preparing for Priesthood takes a fairly long time as well, a time of learning and preparation. For example, “In the United States, priests must have a four-year university degree in philosophy plus an additional four to five years of graduate-level seminary formation in theology with a focus on Biblical research. A Master of Divinity is the most common degree.

In Scotland, there is a mandatory year of preparation before entering seminary for a year dedicated to spiritual formation, followed by several years of study.

In Europe, Australasia and North America, seminarians usually graduate with a Master of Divinity or a Master of Theology degree, which is a four-year professional degree (as opposed to a Master of Arts which is an academic degree). At least four years are to be in theological studies at the major seminary.

In Germany and Austria, priest candidates graduate with an academic degree (Magister theologiae, Diplom-Theologe, Master of Arts in Theology). The degree takes five years’ and is preceded by a year of spiritual formation (plus learning of the ancient languages) and followed by two years of pastoral practice (during which the candidate is ordained to the deaconate). Usually, priests spend all of that time in a seminary except one “free year”

Can you see the pattern here? Up and coming new and young leaders don’t just drop out of the sky all fully prepped, educated and with a firm grasp of the “reality” of the situation.

 

Anarchists, on the other hand, do simply drop out of… something and land running, they’re just not sure in which direction but they’re ready to fight, they’re just not certain against who, for a great and glorious cause that only they are privy to… they’re usually just not quite entirely sure what the cause is, or where it’s going.

You want to laugh now, go ahead, at fifteen I was an Anarchist so I’m speaking from experience.

Aretha Franklin 1967
img. source: Vogue Paris

Respect

(Redding)

“What you want, baby, I got

What you need, do you know I got it?

All I’m askin’

Is for a little respect when you come home…”

Aretha Franklin, 1967

Everybody has respect for something or for someone so it follows that everyone, except perhaps for the diehard Anarchist, knows what respect is. We get taught that from early childhood, mostly successfully, sometimes not. We go along through our early life and education being exposed to, and explained to, things like common courtesy, politeness and mutual respect then, at some point, some choose to forget all that, others choose to embrace it and make it part of the life. As a point of fact a learned friend of mine, a practicing Psychological Counsellor, explained to me that although we can treat everyone we come across with courtesy, respect and politeness we can’t, automatically, expect the same in return and, sadly, I find myself in agreement with that statement.

Some say respect has to be earned, they will tell you “I don’t respect people until they prove themselves worthy of my respect”F**K YOU C**K, who died and made you Emperor of the freakin’ Universe?

Some say, “To get respect you must show respect.” VERY sensible, that’s called mutual respect and it is how real, sensible and well-balanced individuals operate.

Others will say, “I don’t give a fuck whether you respect me or not…!”Fine BYE BYE…

Again, it’s all about choice.

 

img. source:
YSI South East Asia

Change and the next generation

When I became a father for the third time I realised that I couldn’t hope to look after my kids properly, while they grew, developed and strengthened by looking back on my own upbringing and applying the same rules as I held dear when I was running amok with the old crew. I realised that I had to move with the times, I had to update, I had to learn new things and accept new realities. I managed to navigate that and today I have three wonderful kids who are, respectively, an assistant manager, a shift manager and one who is studying youth and social work to work with “at risk” youth.

I supported, I guided and I nurtured their hopes and their dreams. That is what we “older Vamps” need to be doing now. REMEMBER death is not inevitable… even though there are those who claim immortality (sorry… it’s fiction) We will disappear sooner or later, later would be nice but how long are we going to try and keep an iron clad grip on the Culture? How long are we going to seek to stifle the “new young voices” that will follow in our footsteps? Is our legacy to be tottering, creaky and crumbling old establishment that will collapse into dust as soon as we’re not around to prop it up?

On the other hand, what are we looking at handing over to? This…???

“Lmao. Fuck off, you stupid old bastard. The geriatric fucks like you that paved roads ten and twenty years ago still want to be worshiped as though you were fucking kings or something. Get over it. My generation will bury your asses, anyway.”

“Now, now… here, this’ll make you feel better”
img. source: Vat19

I don’t know about you but after 16 years in the online culture and almost 39 years a real living Vampyre, that makes me shudder. Should we just close our eyes and walk away now and let the rabid dogs chew their own legs off? Should we just hand everything over to the young “fang bangers” now and say, “Screw you, you little tosser, ram it up your arse and fuck off…!”

As I said, it’s all about choices and to be quite honest, if the previous comment is indicative of the sort of thing we’re ALL up against now then I’m going to yell…

img. source: outtherecolorado.com… (and one of talented RVL artists…)

“LLAMA…LLAMA…LLAMA…LLAMA…LLAMA…LLAMA… I CAN”T HEAR YOU…!”

Then spit in the dust and go find something realistic and worthwhile to spend my time with. Oh, and I don’t need, OR WANT anyone to worship me by the way.

Copyright T.B. 2018

Refs:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Youth_politics#List_of_current_youth_politics_organizations

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priesthood_in_the_Catholic_Church

https://www.songlyrics.com/aretha-franklin/respect-lyrics/

NB: Where used, quoted portions of other works are reproduced by permission, or under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, wherein allowance is made for “fair use” for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research.

This article may be linked to but may not be copied or reproduced, nor redistributed in any manner, including electronic without the express permission of the copyright owners.

The views and opinions presented in this article are the opinions of the author and/or contributors and do not necessarily represent the views and opinions of The Owner/s of RVL, their officers, assigns or agents. RVL and its officers do not personally, individually, or jointly necessarily recommend or condone any of the activities or practices represented.

For further information please see the RVL Website Disclaimer